by Selina Yang (@y_aniles)
Rider/Horse is lean. There’s no fat in this wasteland to soften the blows of Kingston’s flagship experimental noise outfit. Select Trials, their first record, personifies the grit of running barefoot over industrial debris. The pandemic project of Chris Turco (drums) and Cory Plump (vocals, guitar), every second of Select Trials’ stabbing drum lines and chanting vocals riff off each other without wasting a second, with the mechanical reliability of industrial activity. With their second record in 2022, Feed ‘Em Salt, the duo enlisted the talents of Jared Ashdown (bass) and Zoots Houston (pedal steel) to choreograph a desperate drilling disco. Rider/Horse’s atmosphere simmers with tension, the product of antsy masters at work.
For their July headliner at Mama Tried, a Brooklyn bar and patio, Rider/Horse must have programmed the impending thunderstorm. The venue is aptly located under a highway overpass, its metal ribs rattling over us so that passing trains sounded like Rider/Horse improv. Fresh off opening for Protomartyr at the historic Bowery Ballroom in June, Mama Tried is an unpretentious retro dive, the opposite of the vast stage show I was introduced to.
For Rider/Horse, their home base in Kingston is at Plump’s bar Tubby’s, an inadvertent community music hub. According to a Yelp reviewer, visitors find themselves “shazaming half the night.” Cory welcomed me with a dry, quick wit characteristic of someone who has seen it all. Chris, “legend of the Hudson Valley,” with a booming laugh, was brimming with stories. Jared, their protégé, spoke with a deep introspection behind bright body language. Translating beyond their music, the dynamic between them was just as active, riffing off each other with the familiarity from hours of jam sessions together. Between their personalities, the perfect cocktail of measured experience and “let’s fucking go for it” mentality.
After the set, between a plate of nachos and cans of Modelo, Rider/Horse sat down with Post-Trash to chat about their evolution since the pandemic, philosophy of artwork, dynamic with their local music scene, and sketches for the third album.
photo credit: Jo Sauce
Selina: What did you guys think of the show?
Jared: It was very sweaty.
Cory: Tom had been asking us for a long time, and it finally came to fruition.
Chris: This was months in the making.
Selina: Are you familiar with many venue owners in the city?
Chris: We’re in our own little hub in upstate, Kingston New York. Thanks to Cory, a lot of what passes through is more national. Bands that are going through Boston, New York, Philly, Pittsburgh, are also going through Kingston because of Tubby’s.
Selina: [Cory], as the owner of Tubby’s, how do you decide what bands end up going through? Is it a combination of booking necessities and time convenience, or a certain style you’re looking for?
Cory: It’s not a style thing. We’re trying to create a space where touring bands feel great, mixed with local bands.
Selina: Where has been your most unexpected source of inspiration for Rider/Horse?
Chris: COVID birthed the project. [Cory] and I just began playing together, he opened a show for Oneida. Cory called me up and was like, “Oneida basically refuses to play unless you’re opening. Do you have a band?” And I was like, “What do you want to do?”
We played with Oneida in October or November of 2019, where we first made that linkage. And then COVID kicked in. We had gotten momentum going in terms of interacting. We were all sitting around, very little to do. [Cory] had Tubby’s, his whole entire music venue to set up a recording rig in, and I had my own small recording studio situation. We just did the thing that a lot of people did and began sending back and forth to develop.
Selina: So you were never physically in the same area to practice?
Cory: The first record, and even into the second record, it’s all remote recording.
Selina: Do you feel like the ability to practice and perform together, live, changes the way the record sounds? Especially as you move into your third album?
Cory: Unknown. The record we’re working on now is going to be all four of us.
Chris: It’s going to get answered in the next year.
Jared: With the honor of playing material off the first couple albums, [Cory and Chris] have given a lot of flexibility to bring energy to them live that feels different than on the record, but still retains the songs’ integrity. It’s fucking cool, it’s brutal, it’s a little freaky how songs evolve, it’s interesting how they survive in different contexts, but the original meaning still is there.
Chris: [Jared] played a significant part in crafting our set list now. Cory and I had a set of numbers that we had been doing live with the other bassist, John, but when Jared joined us, especially when we opened for Protomartyr, we needed to have a real set. We weren’t just fucking off in our hometown. Jared started coming to us with good ideas to interpret songs that neither one of us had thought of. Which is really nice, because you’re interacting with people whose tastes you trust, because you can let them interpret a situation in a certain way and know it’s going to go well.
Selina: So did you guys originally start off as a duo, or a trio?
Cory: For Rider/Horse, in all practical purposes, it started as a duo. When it worked into a live band it became a trio. Now it’s a quartet.
Selina: How did you [Jared] feel jumping into their dynamic?
Jared: I was so nervous. I respected everyone in the band in a lot of different ways. With Cory, I’ve always loved Spray Paint. I was a lover of Rider/Horse before I joined the band. That was the first vinyl, I loved the material. I’ve always respected [Chris] Turco, seeing him play, and seeing what he brings to the table. He’s always sending me older projects. [Chris laughs] He’s a legend of the Hudson Valley. He’s got a style, like Houston, Chicago, freestyle, and has done an insane amount of projects. For me to walk in, and to not have been doing music for very long at all, it felt like being in the shadow of a giant. But they’ve spread their arms open and you can feel very loved and appreciated. It’s a blessing I’m really grateful for.
Chris: It helps that Jared’s a really good musician.
Cory: Not only that, it helps that he’s not old. We’re all kind of old, Zoots’ like 1000 years old but Chris and I are basically 50 at this point. Whenever Jared came around, it was nice to have a young person …
Chris: … not so much baked in cynicism.
Selina: Within your development process, is Rider/Horse more improvisational, or calculated?
Cory: Extremely improvisational.
Chris: Getting looser as we continue to play. We played [the night before] at Tubby’s, which is total home court advantage for us. Even our homie was doing sound for it, so everything was in place. We started getting a little loose there, and coming down here it was a thunderstorm. We had all caught a bit of a buzz and thought, “Let’s just fucking go for it.” Y’know, default, then interpret it more loosely than we had the past few times.
Selina: If you were to put an image to your sound, what would that be?
Chris: A child’s drawing of an axe murderer. [Cory laughs]
Jared: Some serious Francis Bacon shit –
Chris: – kinda abstract, kinda horrifying –
Jared: – but more like in his later shit, like his last studies are dark, but very abstract, and very beautiful in a lot of ways, but still fucked up in a lot of ways. He was dying. He had no idea, but he was scared. That’s kind of what [our music] feels like, being at the edge of your seat as you’re falling off a cliff, but it’s fun to take yourself out by having a good time.
Selina: Almost like the sublime.
Chris: Exactly. You’ll get one little thing of chili and one little thing of chips, and that’s it. [Cory laughs]
Jared: Our music is like one solid order of chips, cheese, and vegan chili, right before we’re back on the road.
Chris: Let me ask you a question. Production of music can make everything sound different. So your first experience of seeing us was at the Bowery Ballroom, which is top notch in New York City right? How was your experience seeing us at a DIY space like this? Where there’s no mics on things, basically sounds like a practice space. Was it as powerful?
Selina: I honestly think the balance here was pretty good. Of course the Bowery feels like surround sound. It feels huge.
Cory: With a super professional sound system, a front of house guy, and a monitor guy, it’s audibly going to be a far grander experience, even if we were each playing on Casio keyboards it would sound vast compared to doing it up here.
Selina: That refers to the physical space itself, for me when I go to shows it’s about the people there. [Mama Tried] is really nice because you get the vibe that everyone knows each other, and more community centered. I felt closer to the music, even when the sound wasn’t literally encompassing.
Chris: Isn’t there a timeline though? You saw us presented as a big thing, very impressive, and then you see us in a smaller setting, where that’s reversed. If you walked in [to Mama Tried], maybe you’re just going to go inside and have a couple drinks, and decide you’re not interested in [the show] because the sound is small. Sound is such a huge thing with someone’s first interaction with music. Do you agree with that?
Selina: While I agree, here I was also familiar with your music beforehand, so even if the production is weird, I could fill in the blanks in my head.
Jared: Did it feel like it was more about the energy today than at the last show?
Selina: Last time, people were tall, and I could barely even see you guys.
Jared: I hate when you go to a show and all the tall people stand in the front, so fucked up.
Selina: What do you look for in a live experience?
Cory: It’s a really complicated question because there’s different tiers of like, aid and stuff. This sounds fucked up, but I need a vibe and I need money. [laughs]
Chris: Cory and I are in the same boat there. If we can play close to home where the drives are mellow country drives for 40 minutes, like Albany, sure. If it’s just going to be cool, fun, and vibey, but no pass, I am definitely not driving to a major city to experience that.
Jared: You can’t just subsist on vibes, I can’t play a good show and then only consume vibes. We pay for the equipment that we use to play shows, and need to upgrade equipment to play better shows.
When I play a show I definitely look for vibes, and would like to be paid. But there definitely needs to be an energy to the space in order for it to feel right. People have to feel engaged with the music to attach to it – I have to feel attached to the people. If they’re not having a good time, how the fuck am I supposed to have a good time. If I’m not having a good time, how the fuck are they supposed to have a good time? There’s an immense conversational aspect that happens in a live setting. You have to like, do what you do and be fearless.
Selina: Do you mind me asking how old you guys are?
Jared: 28.
Cory: 44.
Selina: When you see the different generations who come to your shows, is there a different etiquette, if even pre- vs. post-pandemic?
Cory: Actually, they’re blending to be the same. I used to say older people weren’t filming it the whole time, but now I see older people filming more than younger people. It’s all trending to be the same, and that’s okay. Old people who go to shows are the heroes, and here’s why. Old people that go to shows have already seen us, and can afford to buy merch. You need a blend of old dudes and younger people.
Jared: It’s nice to see diverse crowds, that’s always been a big thing for me. I love seeing older people and younger people both in a setting rubbing shoulders. If your music can speak past generational barriers, then you’re doing something right. It’s cool to see some 19 year old kid losing their shit next to a 38 or 50 year old. The barriers disappear in the midst of art.
Selina: As musicians, when you go to a show blind, are you forced to focus on the mixing, composition, or what they could do better – or can you just sit back and enjoy from an outside perspective?
Cory: Every band’s going to be the most judgy people of all. Other bands watching other bands are going to be like, “I could do that”. If you just walk in and you’re like “Wow,” that’s pretty nice, instead of immediately going into heavy analysis.
Chris: I’m picky about whatever interests me when I walk in the room. If something is entertaining and has a quality that draws you in, it’ll get my attention. Behind a shitty band, there might be one fabulous musician. You can tune out the world and only watch the fabulous musician. Or, you could be watching a band where almost nobody can play but they do it in a way that’s completely fucking charming and cool in an unexpected way – that has its own way of being engaging. That question has so many tiers for how I interpret a performance.
Jared: I love it if I don’t have to think about it.
Selina: That reminds me of my experience as a writer. Whenever I go to a show, I’m also always thinking about how to interpret it, and what adjectives I gotta keep in mind for later. It’s different to sit back and experience it.
Jared: We all have different perspectives when we go into a show. Even our listeners, right? Everyone is thinking of a preconceived notion of what it’s gonna be, [musicians are] trying to figure out what somebody’s doing. Or, trying to forget who they are while the show is happening. Everyone has a place in that ecosystem. Firstly for us, yeah, when you’re a musician you’re always gonna break down like, “oh, this playing a weird progression” or “oh, that drummer is definitely the best part of this band and they’re fucking insane.”
Sometimes, you see some shit where you can’t even think of a word, a thing, or a place, you’re completely captivated by a feeling. That’s always the best. It could be indie, folk, pop, metal, anything.
Selina: People have probably already asked about your influences. If I were to turn that around, have you influenced anyone else?
Jared: Definitely not. That’s hilarious.
Cory: I don’t believe in influences, it’s such a dirty word to me. It means that music, that’s good, is white. I want to hear what your day to day life through your music. Some people go to Florida and get therapy. I’d much rather hear your music, and I’d rather make music.
[Influences in] other bands, sure, we all listen to music. Who gives a fuck. But what’s your life like? Like you wake up and go to work, and it’s stressful? Me too. You make music? Hell yeah, I’m with that.
Chris: I’ve been doing this since 1987, so I was the first person in my shitty hometown to ever start up a hardcore band. I can tell you that there were definitely a number of people who came after me doing it, long after I left. There are a couple other instances where things like that might have happened. Pure fucking facts. I was in a small, blue collar, mostly Catholic town, there was absolutely no counterculture whatsoever and we were the only fucking thing in our region.
Selina: If anything, so many people probably wanted to start, but just needed someone inspiring.
Chris: You want to turn them on to whatever their path is. They don’t need to become a version of you because you influenced them or whatever. It’s nice to just be like “This moment in 1990 happened, so I went off on another track for the next 20 years because of that.” I have a very old friend that I grew up with who learned to drum off of the demos I made. He asked me once, “Do you think I need to leave our hometown in order to tour nationally?” And I was like, “Yes.” So he intentionally joined a band that was 45 minutes away, and toured the United States multiple times just to prove me wrong.
Jared: I’m too young to answer this question. I don’t know what the fuck is going on ever, I don’t really care. If someone likes it, cool, if not, whatever.
Selina: Some say that art doesn’t have meaning in itself, but only develops meaning from being in contrast with society and other art. Does your music try to say anything, or does it just exist?
Jared: The minute you make something, and put it out, your perspective doesn’t mean shit. That’s somebody else’s will now.
Chris: Art requires an observer, right? It requires interaction, and each person’s interaction is going to be different.
Selina: Is there anything you guys are excited about?
Cory: This is a hot drop. We’re making our third album, right? We’re making it in an isolated studio style. We’re going to make it, learn it, then play live a couple times, then actually record it.
Chris: It’s fun to see which interpretation of the song we like better.
Cory: Like what we’re doing now [at this show]. Chris and I made the majority of the music for what we’re doing live, but why not try that live as a studio thing? I’m genuinely excited, big shoutout to Protomartyr for giving us some inspiration, courage, and confidence. We’re still riding that wave of playing a bunch of heat to a bunch of people, and doing pretty well if I do say so myself. We’re going to bang out an album and see what happens.
Chris: It’s been super fun since we turned into this [quartet] version of the band, especially for this particular live lineup. Both Cory and I, for being the cynical old timers, have been brightened up by what we have going on now.
Cory: Shoutout to Jared, he’s only 16.
Chris: It might be a trafficking situation.
Jared: I’m immensely appreciative and grateful for what we’re doing. I’m more so looking forward to the conversations we have along the way, the moments we get to have together. That’s more powerful than the music sometimes. The moments you share with people are what you get to take to the grave. My deathbed is going to be a bit easier to lay on. I got the best trafficking masters in the world right now.