by Taylor Ruckle (@TaylorRuckle)
In the five years since the last Weaves album, 2017’s Wide Open, former bandleader Jasmyn Burke’s future has seemingly only opened even wider. “Find The Light,” her first single since leaving the band, married the guitar-driven indie rock heft of her past work with a new level of sky-high pop grandeur, featuring cinematic synth grit, colossal drums, and a drone-filmed video where she summons backup dancers in matching wigs to join her in the performance.
Her debut solo record In The Wild is out now on ANTI- Records, with production by Grammy-winner John Congleton to augment Burke’s talents for obliquely catchy melodies and theatrical vocals. Though it was tracked in 2020, it’s not your typical pandemic record–whether she looks outward at her relationships on the title track or inward at her own creative life on “Blank Paper,” Burke finds a boundless joy and optimism in the unknown, matched in bubbly keyboard tones (and that does include the harpsichord).
It also gives her an opportunity to explore her newfound love of artistic movement, as in contemporary dance dreamscapes like the video for “Edge of Time.” Before the release of In The Wild, Burke spoke with Post-Trash about the process of discovering herself as a solo artist and developing the eight-page visual manifesto that guided the project.
photo credit: Mariah Hamilton
I know the making of this record coincided with you moving to Hamilton and sort of starting over that way. When was that, and what was it like getting set up in a new place?
I guess I moved here in 2018, so it was before the pandemic. But it was interesting because obviously soon after, we really had to hunker down, so I was kinda happy I already lived here and had kinda settled.
You know, I moved here, and I think it shifted my nervous system a little bit. It was quieter here, and I live close to the water, and that was something I was craving, I think, so the album naturally started to have this base of, like, being in the wild. I'm not living in the country, but at the same time, I was used to a very busy city, and just go go go, and I needed a minute to take a break and breathe in. You tour a lot, and you're in a different city every day, and I just felt like I needed to reset my clock.
Take things at your own pace, in other words.
Exactly. I feel like with this album, I had a lot of time because I sort of--you know, I signed with ANTI- Records during the pandemic, but I never felt rushed. I just felt like I was naturally letting the album inform itself, in a way. Like, "What is this about? What am I feeling?" It felt very organic.
So when did you have that feeling that there was a record coming out?
I think in 2020. That was when all of us were hunkering down, and I started writing in like, March, April, just figuring out what I wanted to say. To be honest, I was kind of thinking, "Will I stay in the music industry? What am I gonna do?" But then I just started writing, and because we were at home, it was like, "Well, this is what I know how to do," so over the first seven, eight months of 2020, I started writing this album at home. I had some demos of that, which I shared with ANTI-, and that's sort of how that began.
Then before you knew it, I was sending demos back and forth with John Congleton, who produced the album, and then ended up flying out there last summer and recording, so it's been very weird--like, a lot of things happening, but you're still at home the entire time? Even when I went on the plane to record the album, I was like, "Is this real?" [laughs] Like, "Am I recording an album?" Because I'd been inside for so long. It was definitely an interesting way to approach music in this very obviously unprecedented time.
You don't go through the normal stages with an album where you would normally be rehearsing and performing and all that.
Yeah, and this was a brand new project too. It wasn't supposed to be for a band, so it felt more freeing that way. I was like, "I can kind of do whatever I want moving forward," which was also exciting. Like, if I wanted it to be a dance album, if I wanted it to be a country album, I felt like it also opened the doors for me, sonically. I can try different things and experiment and just have fun.
I read the Talkhouse interview you did with Blunt Chunks, and you alluded to the fact that this record was your first time writing with a computer and a DAW setup. What was it like getting into that?
It was kind of exciting. I think previously, technology kind of freaked me out, and I often would literally just sit with my phone and record the voice memo. But at a certain point that gets frustrating because sometimes your first take of vocals are, like, the best thing, right? And you're kind of bummed out that they weren't recorded properly. So during the pandemic I decided, "You know what? I'm gonna invest in myself and gaining some self-confidence with gear," so I got myself a computer and a little MIDI keyboard and a mic.
I'd always demoed with other people, but I think it sort of empowered me, getting a computer and learning these things that--I dunno, it's a very male-dominated world of sound engineering and studios, and I was like, "I want to move through that and learn some things so that I can easily demo, I hope." Also, it was pandemic times, so I thought, "Well, I really do have to learn how to record because there's no one around." [laughs] I was texting and calling friends, like, "I don't know how to send the stems! What do I do?" It was a big learning experience, but I started writing again, and it's becoming second nature, which is exciting.
"Blank Paper" is a song that feels like it's tied to this sense of a new creative identity, kind of like you're talking about. Can you tell me more about that song?
Yeah, you know, sometimes you doubt yourself as a musician, and you're like, "What am I doing? Is this even relative to people?" You have these self-doubts. I think through that song, I was experiencing, like, feeling lonely on the stage. You know, playing rock and roll music, often I'm the only woman of color playing at festivals for rock bands, so sometimes that felt a little bit daunting. I think it was my experience in that, and just starting this new project.
Moving to a new place, starting a new project, and kind of flipping my life around felt very much like blank paper, and I guess that idea came into my head because I felt like everything was fresh and exciting. It was interesting 'cause I would want artwork for my new apartment, and it would show up on sale, and there's all these weird things happening where I felt like, "Oh, I'm in flow. I'm doing the thing." That song feels like that type of energy to me. You know, when you're following your path and it's like, "This is the right thing."
You're going with the flow, and it ends up taking you somewhere you want to be anyway.
Exactly. I think it can be scary to get out of your comfort zone, but if you view it as this positive, blank-paper sentiment, it can lead you to a whole new place that you hadn't dreamed of, you know?
The whole record has that sense of openness. "Green Nature" starts out so confident with the harpsichord and the timpani, all these big, kind of regal sounds. Can you tell me about putting that together?
I think we had been talking about what song should open the record for a while–we were talking about earlier how it's kind of fun because "Green Nature" opens it and "Purple Reflections" ends it. I think the harpsichord is such a strong way to start the album [laughs] and it's just sort of this timeless instrument. I think that was also just, you know, working with John in the studio, he was trying different instruments and seeing what would work. It was actually Zac Rae playing it live, and it just sort of came alive, that song, and it sounds like a perfect introduction to what is happening in my life currently.
It was sort of an ode to the idea of In The Wild and attracting things that you want by being open. With this album, there's an overarching theme I was trying to create with each song, and it is this idea of–I guess [“Blank Paper”] is like, “this the start of flourishing under disguise of loss,” and for me, that was what I was feeling internally. Like, I was anxious about, "Should I move in this new solo direction? Am I crazy? What's happening?" So it felt like it was a good way to start the album because you can have anxiety when you're starting something new, but it can lead to something that is very different.
But yeah, it was kind of me and John sending each other music, and in the studio, he started thinking of the harpsichord, and I was like, "Yes, I love it!" [laughs]
Tell me more about working with John--how did the two of you connect, and what was the dynamic like getting in the studio together?
It was amazing. I guess when I was writing the beginning of this album, I had said to my label ANTI-, “It would be great to try and work with John Congleton,” and they had said, "Let's try and arrange it." You know, they are friends with each other, and yeah, me and him had a Zoom call, like a Zoom date, and got to know each other and sort of if we were vibing out. We both felt like it would be something interesting to work on together, so then during the end of 2020, we started sending each other stems–I would send him the stems of my original demo and then he would work on it, send me stuff back. That went on for a couple months of us just fine-tuning it, and then yeah, I went to LA last summer and we banged out the album in a week, just went hardcore recording.
It was fun--he's an interesting person to work with too 'cause he is very in the moment, and he's kind of like, "Don't overthink the take." Sometimes, especially as singers, you think, "Oh, I need to do 25 takes of it before I'll get the right mood," and he's kind of like, "We don't need to do that." [laughs] Like, "The spirit of it should come in take one, two, or three" kind of vibe, so it kept me on my toes, but it was very exciting to work with him. I've been a long-time fan, so it was really cool to have him want to be on board with this record.
Yeah, you mentioned that you specifically requested to try and work with him. What was it that drew you to him, or what were the records he'd worked on that you were thinking of?
Well, I guess he's worked with a lot of powerhouse women. He's done stuff with St. Vincent, Angel Olsen, and Sharon Van Etten. Those are all artists I really look up to, and I feel like their albums also just seem very authentically them, and you know, just kinda punk rock ethos to it. I didn't want somebody that would try and make me sound like something I'm not, or, I don't know, just a little bit square. When you go in there, he was a bit like, "Do you. Sing how you sing and we're not gonna try and put you in a box," and I appreciated that about working with him.
One of the things about this record and about your music in general is that the vocal performance always feels very in-the-moment--the way that you phrase and the way that you breathe, and the way that you express each line always just feels like you're in it. How do you get in that headspace to perform in the studio?
I guess my natural inkling is, like, "You're not gonna phone it in," and I guess I'm a bit dramatic, naturally, [laughs] so it's not hard for me to get into that headspace when I'm recording or when I'm on the road. I try and feel that emotion right then and there, and in particular with recording, I tried not to listen to the demos very much before we went into the studio. Sometimes I think if you over-rehearse it, you're kind of losing the spirit, you know what I mean? So I tried to give the songs a break before I went to LA, and then once I got there, I rehearsed a bit more in my hotel room [laughs] but I tried to save that energy until we were in the room together. But yeah, I've always sort of been this way where--I don't know, I just feel this energy once I'm behind the mic. I become this other kind of person, in a way.
Do you ever surprise yourself when you're in that kind of a state?
Kind of. I mean, it's funny when my family comes to shows 'cause I was very, very quiet as a kid, and in elementary school, my teacher--you know, your report card, she would be like, "She doesn't speak. She needs to work on that." I think people are often surprised from earlier days in my life, 'cause I was very shy, that I have this other side, but I've always felt like--I don't know, maybe if you're shy, it's an easy way to express yourself because you don't always feel comfortable around people. [laughs] So it definitely surprises some of my family. They're like, "Who is she? I don't understand," like, screaming, or like, rolling around. But it feels natural and it's kinda performance art in a way for me. It's a way to be creative.
Something else you mentioned in that Talkhouse piece was that you had this manifesto that laid out your vision for the visuals of this record. How did that sense develop, and what was the substance of that manifesto?
[laughs] It's like an eight-page, very detailed thing, but I think it happened out of–you know, I've recorded a few albums, and sometimes the songs can feel disjointed, so a goal with this album was to have this fluid line throughout every song, and therefore it just made sense to have certain images that would coincide with it. Obviously, there's contemporary dance in the music videos, and I was wearing wigs, and I felt like I was trying to figure out a way to express how movement can shift your mood, so then maybe you actually have physical movement. I think even my therapist said this, but just dancing and shaking it off can really help your nervous system to relax, and going through the pandemic and all these really tough times for people psychologically, financially, it's like, if you can even just dance in your living room, it can help take away some of that stress.
So there were these themes that I wanted, and color schemes. Like, the backdrop for the album is a similar tone to the "Find the Light" music video, and I thought it would be cool to have aerial shots, so that's why there are drones and aerial shots–I was thinking of when you experience your life, and how you pull yourself out and try to look from an aerial view of what's happening, so that was supposed to be kind of an ode to that theme.
One of the first shots that's so cool is super zoomed-out, straight down, and you don't even notice there's a person until they stand up and walk away, and it's like, "Oh, hey. There's a person there.”
Exactly, kind of that idea of a bird's-eye view of your life, and are there things you would change if you had the ability? Or maybe you'd keep it the same, or not having regrets. I think there's ways to have camera or wardrobe create this idea, and I wanted wigs from early on in the concept of it as well, 'cause I thought, in a way, it's like putting on your hat. Like, in any walk of life, you create a character that becomes whatever path you take. I tried to put in these little things that hopefully make people think.
Also, it's just nice 'cause when you're doing videos, you have a reference point for people, which can help both of you. Otherwise, it's like random video ideas, so I found it really helped me with working with other creatives 'cause we could collaborate, but we always had something to come back to to reference for color schemes or for camera shots that might be interesting. I think it helped with the cohesiveness of the album and the artwork and everything.
You shared the back cover of the album recently, which is a similar kind of shot of you very far off in the distance, and just trees and greenery around you.
And there's a little path, which I viewed as, you know, the path of life. [laughs] “Where's the next step?”
You tweeted that, and you said "back of albums r the underrated glue to the family. the middle child that doesn't get noticed." Do you have any particularly inspirational back album covers that you think about?
Oh, I gotta think about that. I wonder if I have anything fun here. Let me look. Hold on.
Yeah, of course!
[Digging through record crate] I'm literally looking at...these are just my boyfriend's albums. Okay, let's see. This is Chicago's Greatest Hits, but the back is kinda fun too. Hanging off the back of a painting...thing. That's very cool. Columbia Records. Love that. Here we have The Beatles.
Help! The American cover, I think.
Great photo on the back. Love it. See, and that's a great photo, but no one ever--I think they're important. What else do I have here? Which one is this? Oh, this is Rolling Stones. Let it Bleed. It's pretty similar I guess. They didn't really...
Yeah, people will do variations on a theme. They'll have the same photo, but altered, or different shots from the same photo shoot.
But I think they're part of the experience as well, you know? And they can tell a story. The thing that makes me sad sometimes is that often the back is, like, "Oh, this was my second choice for the front, and it didn't get its glory," or at least that's how I've felt sometimes with my own albums. I just wanted to give a little love to the back because I think it's pretty cool, but it just didn’t--you know, the votes didn't come in that it was gonna be the front, but I think they're cool.
It's almost like an easter egg for people who buy the physical copy, right? You have this whole other part of the visual experience.
Exactly, and then in the center, it's beautiful, it's like--there's more to just the front of an album.
Right, you can't judge an album by its cover.
No, of course not. [laughs] Or sometimes you know the vibe. I used to just pick out, like--okay, 'cause in our last vehicle, we didn't have an MP3 player. It was just CD's, so you'll pick out a CD on the road that's just, like, the cover, but it feels like something that you would listen to. I kinda like doing that sometimes. You'll just see an old vinyl or CD and you're like, "I just like their spirit. I don't know their music, but..." It's a fun way to explore listening to music.
So you've alluded a couple times to how important movement is to this project. Are there any artists, or dancers, or choreographers who inspire you that way?
Let me pull up my manifesto, 'cause there were a few artists that I loved. I guess I could, like--do you want me to share my screen and I can show you?
That would be awesome. I would love that.
Can you see it?
Yes, I can.
I was thinking of Pina. Did you ever see that, years ago? It was just this interesting--I saw it in the theater. It's a 2011 documentary that is really amazing, so I had referenced that. You'll see here, there's like, neutral clothing, these are kind of my reference photos. There's colors. [Scrolling] So it was like, natural elements versus embellishment. Manifesting through patterns. You know, I'm kind of a nerd, [laughs] but this is what I'd show people, and it had little descriptions.
But yeah, I really liked Pina, I really liked--there's a Steve Reich piece where there's these two dancers across from each other in chairs. I'll see if I can find it. Yeah, Fase: Four Movements to the Music of Steve Reich. There's two women across from each other, and they're doing these interesting movements, and things like that--during the pandemic, I got inspired by movement. I've even just seen friends who are dancers, and like, seeing the way it's another way to express the music seemed enticing to me.
I've been thinking about this recently, and I guess sometimes I feel like what I love doing most is, like, expression? You know, I love expression, whether it be music, whether it be musical theater, whether it be books. I never really got into dance until the last few years, and I started to understand how beautiful it is, and how music can really be expressed through movement. And obviously if you see, like, Kate Bush doing all this weird interpretive dance [laughs] it's so magical and kinda strange and it's just a cool way to further express the songs.
I've read that before Weaves, before you were in a band, you would perform as a solo artist with guitar and sampler. Is that something you've drawn on at all as you've been looking at translating this record to the live format?
I think I'm always--I love looping. Like, looping is my way of writing a lot of the time, and I think it would be cool to develop something in the live show where that happens in the future. At the moment, it won't be, but I definitely think even with writing this album, a lot of the time I would loop my vocals. I find that really helps me with building out the verse and chorus, and like, building up the melody. That's a really useful skill for me. I'll just loop myself and then kind of vary on the sound, and that helps me to figure out the body of the song.
'Cause I'm kind of a person where when I'm writing, I write all the lyrics and the melody right there within that hour time slot, and I can't really go back because I just have to be in that spirit of the song. So I find looping really helps me to figure out melodies, and it's just a really easy tool to utilize. I love looping guitar too, but with the computer, it's easier to just play a MIDI keyboard. [laughs]
You said that at the start of this process, you were wondering whether you would continue being a professional musician. Where do you stand on that now?
I think I'm back at the place where I'm excited about music again. I was nervous to do my own solo project, but at the same time, because it was scary, I felt like, "Let's just go for it. You only have one life to live, why not try it?" And I've found it very fulfilling and very empowering for me to write by myself at home, learning how to record, and I'm really excited to go on the road. I think doing this has allowed me to, yeah, I guess in the future be able to explore all different kinds of sounds, and hopefully work with different kinds of producers. So I think it's opened my mind back up to being excited about music, and I'm really excited to go on this tour.