by Patrick Pilch (@pratprilch)
In September, Post Trash spoke with Philadelphia trio Corey Flood. We talked Hulk Hands, the Chicago Cubs and Park Deli on Chester Avenue. Corey Flood is Ivy Gray-Klein (vocals/bass), Em Boltz (vocals/guitar) and Juliette Rando (vocals/drums). Their new record, Hanging Garden is out on Fire Talk Records. Hulk Hands are featured in Corey Flood’s new-ish COVID-era video for “Heaven Or.” Here’s a pull from the Hulk Hands wiki:
“Originally released as a part of the merchandise for 2003 Hulk film, Hulk Hands...first brainstormed by Sara Tresidder in 1997 when Marvel contracted external design consultation. When worn...Hulk Hands are wired so that when they are bashed together or against objects, they emit various smashing or crashing sound effects, as well as occasional Hulk-related roars or catch phrases.”
Pretty wild, huh? Hulk Hands. All thanks to contracted external design consultation. Live music isn’t happening and neither are Corey Flood band practices, but when was the last time you thought about Hulk Hands? Seeing them in the video hit me and I felt I wasn’t there. Those Hulk Hands sparked that dissociating-two-inches-above-your-head feeling, the one often worsened by fondness for nostalgia or steady marijuana use. “I know what I saw,” Ivy Gray-Klien sings, “I know what I saw.” The centering mantra introduces a record that Gray-Klien calls “a reckoning with internal discord,” as the band recalls their experiences with gaslighting, cyclical thoughts and imposter syndrome.
Corey Flood’s foggy post punk wades into tilted detachment with melancholic unease. Hanging Garden is heady and dense with washing, fuzzed guitars and rolling, snare-kick drumlines. Splitting writing duties, Em Boltz’s words revolve on “Down the Hill,” while Gray-Klien’s ruminate on “Kind Stranger,” a two-pronged approach to hit on themes of ambivalence, anxiety and doubt. Hanging Garden is a warm blanket, despite its heavy poetics. The record possesses this innate familiarity; the songs sound like ones I could have sworn I heard before. There are specific moments that give rise to this feeling, like when the arpeggiated guitars slide up in “Honey” or when the major-key outro kicks in on “Park Deli 7.” Corey Flood’s soft melodies, ambered tones and keen arrangements are understated and captivating, marking the band's exceptional progression on their full length debut. Read our interview below:
Post Trash: Hey how’s it going, nice to meet you.
Ivy Gray-Klein: Thanks for doing Zoom, we’re in different parts of the country right now.
PT: Oh, really? Where is everybody?
IGK: I’m in Philly. Juliette is in New Hampshire.
Juliette Rando: Yea I’m stealing a golf course’s Wi-Fi, I hope they don’t kick me out.
IGK: And Em’s in Ohio.
Em Boltz: Yea.
IGK: Where are you, Patrick?
PT: I’m in Chicago.
IGK: Nice.
PT: Is that where everyone is from?
IGK: I live in Philly but I’m from Chicago.
JR: I’m from Massachusetts but I live in Philly.
EB: I’m from Ohio but I live in Philly.
PT: Where are you from in Chicago, Ivy?
IGK: When I was little I lived in Rogers Park and my parents lived in Bucktown for a long time. My dad lives in Wrigleyville now.
PT: Is he a Cubs fan?
IGK: Actually he works at Wrigley Field. That’s his semi-retirement job. He’s an usher, so he works baseball games, but he’s also done Pearl Jam, Lady Gaga and Green Day. Obviously he’s not working right now, but he loves it.
JR: That’s a great retirement gig.
IGK: Yea, it’s good for him.
PT: Cool. I thought I was going to be interviewing just one person today, but I have some ‘this or that’ warm up questions if you’re still down?
IGK: Sure.
PT: Ok, caramel or “carmel”?
IGK: Caramel.
PT: Schwartzman: Robert or Jason?
IGK: I have a lot of feelings about this, actually. Jason Schwartzman was my high school crush, but I did see Rooney, which is Robert’s band, a couple times in high school as well. So I was very invested in the Schwartzman family. But I guess Jason at the end of the day.
PT: Super strength or super speed?
IGK: Super speed for me. What about you guys?
JR: Super strength because I really like the Hulk.
PT: Okay and one from our corporate sponsors - Coke or Pepsi?
EB: Coke.
JR: Coke!
EB: Oh my gosh. [laughs]
PT: They’re paying to have this interview run, both companies.
EB: I was actually drinking Coke right before this.
PT: Nice. So Hanging Garden, the songs on the record were recorded in February of 2019. How does it feel to listen almost two years later?
IGK: It’s just a relief to have it out. There were some post-production delays and then COVID, obviously. I think we all feel relieved it’s out of our hands, at this point.
EB: I think you’ve said this before, Ivy. It’s kind of this cyclical thing, when you wait for so long for something to come out, and you’re like “I hate this now, I can’t stand these songs. I just wish it would come out.” It’s out now and it’s like, “Oh, here’s this thing that I did with these people I care about and I do feel proud of it.” I felt a little of that, for sure.
PT: From what I’ve read, the band usually comes up with the musical component before diving into lyrics, for the most part. Could you talk a little about that and what each member’s role is?
IGK: Sometimes Em or I will come up with a riff for the core idea. Then we’ll quote-on-quote “jam” around it. Once we have an instrumental outline of the song we’ll sit on it, then Em or I will come back with a vocal melody or lyrics, then develop it from there. Em and I don’t really share our lyrics with each other until it’s a done product, so I think that’s a really fun part of the songwriting process for me. Em is also a poet and they’re always so profound with the words they choose. So it’s always exciting to see what they put together.
PT: Do you generally come up with a melody for a song, split up to write lyrics and come back around?
EB: I think we’ve had a different practice for a lot of the songs on the record.
PT: So it just varies?
EB: Yea, I couldn’t write a rule book on how we write songs.
PT: Do you ever end up singing each other’s lyrics?
EB: “Flood” is the only lyric we share and it’s one line.
JR: Em, that song is called “Honey.” [laughs]
EB: Oh, “Honey,” so sorry.
IGK: It’s a working title.
EB: Yea, we’re constantly trying to remind ourselves what the title of that song is.
PT: What time of the day do you write songs, or when do you like to write?
IGK: We usually practice in the evenings, after work and stuff. Em and I will work on lyrics on our own time and bring them back to practice, so it could be any time when we write lyrics. But we generally practice in the evenings.
JR: It’s funny, we’re all morning people. I think the times we’ve had it in the morning we’ve liked it way better.
IGK: Yea we’re usually so tired in the evenings.
EB: Yea, definitely.
PT: Life and death, light and darkness seem to be major sources of lyrical imagery on Hanging Garden songs. Do you want to talk a little about that?
IGK: The first EP, those were just rough demos. They were literally the first four songs I had ever written, just so we could have something to work off of. It became something we didn't think it would be, AKA an official EP. Hanging Garden is completely collaborative, so that impacted the sound a lot more. It’s more rich and nuanced. Em’s guitar style is brighter but I really like the juxtaposition with Juliette’s more unusual drum patterns. The lyrical content stays the same, maybe a little more melancholic and introspective. So yea, it’s an album on lightness and darkness and contrasting those two things.
PT: Em, I know “Down the Hill” was inspired by swimming in the lake with your pen-pal’s house. Are there any other influences that come to mind that inspires you, do you have any favorite poets or personal moments, life events, works of art, etc.?
EB: Favorite poets - Claudia Rankine, Louise Gluck, Anne Carson. I so specifically remember that day. The light felt healing, almost. The rest of the song isn’t necessarily about that experience.
PT: Emily Burtner did the cover layout for Hanging Garden. Ivy, I know your former band, Littler has collaborated with Emily before. Do you want to talk a little about that?
IGK: Marcus Maddox took our press photos and we ended up using some of those for the album artwork. We needed someone to collaborate on the final project and Emily was the first person who came to mind for me. Her sister, Anne, was in Littler with me. I feel I’ve spent many years around the Burtners in creative capacities. They’re both really talented. I wanted to work with someone in Philly and Emily is really involved with the scene. She has such a unique creative perspective. I’m really pleased with the final product.
PT: Another person you work with, Gabrielle Roth, designed two tee shirts for the band. Both have Romanesque elements in them. Was this intentional to keep up with the loose, ancient world theme with The Hanging Gardens? Or was it Gabrielle’s choice?
IGK: That was Gabrielle’s vision. She’s an artist and friend of ours. Those are our first and only t-shirts. We approached her and said, “would you be interested in doing this?” I don’t want to speak for her work, but her MFA thesis was a lot of taking neoclassical iconography and digitizing it. I’m not describing it well, but we gave her an open assignment and that’s what she came up with. I think they’re cool.
EB: The Hanging Garden thing has been a recurring theme in poems and lyrics that I’ve had. We plucked that. I was like, “that would be a really good title.” And it does really bring it all together really nicely.
PT: This might be a flat “no,” but is “Park Deli 7” a reference to Park Deli on Chester Avenue in Philadelphia?
IGK: [laughs] It is!
JR: Do you know how when you make voice memos on your iPhone, it will sometimes tell you where you are?
PT: No, I didn’t know that.
JR: It will label my voice memos as the location I’m at. I guess we recorded seven versions of this song and the final was “Park Deli 7.” We weren’t at the deli at the time, so I think the phone was a little confused about our location.
IGK: That is so funny.
JR: I’m glad you Googled that. That’s amazing.
PT: I was very prepared for a “No, absolutely not.”
IGK: Your journalistic instincts were on the money.
EB: I feel that’s one of the best questions we’ve been asked.
IGK: It’s funny when we sent the tracklisting to Fire Talk and they kept leaving off the “7.” We were like, “No! You have to include this!”
PT: That’s very funny. Other than the “Heaven Or” music video, has the band really collaborated since March?
IGK: Not really. We’re all quarantined separately. We’re thinking about ways where we can maybe practice and we feel safe and comfortable, but we haven’t reached a point where we know what form that will take. We’ve talked a lot on Zoom, or we’ll sit in a park and hang out, but haven’t created IRL.
PT: Abaci are a recurring visual theme both in the “Heaven Or” music video and on the Hanging Garden cover. Is there a significance there and whose are they?
EB: They’re mine. I have eight or nine in my house. You know when you tell someone you like something and then everyone starts getting that thing for you? I’ve just collected a lot. I like the way they look. I actually have a tattoo of one.
JR: Does anyone know how to actually use it to count?
IGK: I think we tried, Juliette came the closest.
JR: I feel they’re each a power of ten, but I’m not going to pretend how much I know about them.
PT: I think the only time I came across an abacus was when I was really young and it was very basic counting stuff. I don’t know how they really work. Ok this leads me to my next question - whose Hulk hands are those?
Em: That’s a given.
JR: Those are mine. I do like the Hulk. I’ve never seen any of the movies or read any of the comics. Is The Hulk a comic? I know nothing about the Hulk except he’s really strong and has green hands. I went through this time period where I wanted to be really strong and I got super obsessed and I’d wear those hands all the time.
EB: You were the Hulk for Halloween.
JR: Yea, I was the Hulk for Halloween. I painted my whole body green. Leading up to Halloween I was doing 8-minute abs all the time. It didn’t work for me. It’s a slow journey to get to the Hulk level.
PT: Speaking of green thumbs, who is the green thumb or thumbs of the band?
IGK: Not me.
EB: I guess I’ve planted some rose bushes in my front yard.
JR: I actually kill plants, usually.
PT: Do you remember the first word you said too many times, so much it lost its meaning?
IGK: Hmm.
PT: Mine was “globe.” Some people have said their names too many times, especially in the mirror. This question was based on a Jezebel clip from July. It was talking about repeating a word for affirmation.
IGK: Oh! I don’t know.
EB: I don’t know either.
JR: Ivy, don’t you think there are words that people used in college that no one uses in real life?
IGK: Oh yea.
JR: Someone today said the word “affect” to me and I was like, “Oh my god no one really says that word, that’s just a weird thing liberal arts school tells you to use.” Everyone in liberal arts schools is all about “affect,” all the time.
IGK: “Lenses.” Using “lenses” to examine things.
JR: “Praxis.”
EB: I love praxis. [laughs]
JR: It’s not a bad word. It just feels like it was every other word I heard in college. I heard it so much and for a long time I was like, “I don’t really know what that means.”
PT: The lyrics on Hanging Garden have a lot to do with dissociation, imposter syndrome, gaslighting, cyclical thoughts and a lot of things I know have been exacerbated by recent times. What has kept y’all grounded in the past couple months?
EB: Walking, nature.
IGK: My pets. I just got a second dog so that’s been very involved, in a good way. I feel like I build my life around his schedule now.
PT: What’s his name?
IGK: My older dog, who makes a cameo in the “Heaven Or” video, her name is Zelda. The second dog we just got is named Ziggy. Those were both the names they had already so we just kept them.
JR: I second nature, being outside. Historically, I’ve always been freaked out by talking on the phone but in quarantine I’ve been talking on the phone so much. I think my longest phone call was a six hour phone call with my friend from college. It’s amazing, when you don’t see each other’s faces you can get really personal. I like it better than FaceTime and Zoom, for sure.
PT: What have you been reading/watching/listening to? Or been excited about?
EB: I just read Journey Around My Room by Louise Bogan. I really liked that. I started watching Seinfeld from the beginning.
PT: What is Journey Around My Room about?
EB: Her life. It’s journal entries, stories and poems that kind of make a mosaic. It’s a nice read.
JR: I got on the Avatar bandwagon.
EB: Oh, me too.
JR: I’ve always been freaked out by cartoons my whole life, which has been a problem because everyone I’m close to loves them. But Avatar is the first cartoon I’ve ever successfully watched without falling asleep.
IGK: The book I just read is called The Vanishing Half by Brit Bennett. It was very good. I actually just watched The Matrix for the very first time. I had never seen any of them so my partner and I watched all three. I feel my cultural references are richer now, because of it. Maybe. Most of all I liked the woman’s wardrobe - Trinity. She’s pretty cool.
PT: Nice, I watched that for the first time this year too. It’s good.
IGK: Yea the first one is quite good. The third feels like Star Wars. It has too much going on.
PT: Is that Reloaded?
IGK: I don’t know. The sequel and the third one were filmed at the same time, I think, so they split them in half. So the third one is very divided and not very good. That’s my official critique.
PT: Pretty cool Hanging Garden shares a release date with the new Throwing Muses album. Do you have a favorite Throwing Muses record?
EB: I feel like I always listen to the demos, In a Doghouse. That was never an official CD but it had “Hate My Way,” “Vicky’s Box,” all these really raw songs.
IGK: I feel like The Real Ramona is the one I listen to the most.
EB: That’s a great record too.
PT: Are y’all working these days?
EB: I’m not.
IGK: But Em is working on new skills! Juliette and I are working. Our former jobs have continued during COVID. I’m working from home, so I’m here often with my dogs.
PT: What does everybody do?
IGK: I work at a university and I manage publications for a department.
JR: I work in a research lab. I’m still going to work but I go in at night. It’s cool, I have the whole lab to myself and I can kind of do whatever I want.
PT: What kind of research?
JR: HIV research. We actually started doing some COVID stuff but I don’t work on the COVID stuff.
PT: What are your creative pursuits and interests outside of music? I know Em you do poetry.
EB: Yea, poetry. I’m working on a more experimental synth project right now. I’ve been getting more into modular synth. I made some music videos for that project. I’ve never made music videos.
JR: I’ve been learning more stuff outside of drums during quarantine. I’m learning guitar from Larz from Palehound. It’s been so nice. They’re the kindest, most supportive teacher in the world. I’ve been learning how to use my sampler. It’s been fun.
IGK: I feel I haven’t been doing anything super creative. Mostly dog stuff, reading, watching The Matrix. That’s what my life revolves around at this point.
PT: Any word about doing a live recording at The Magic Garden in Philly?
IGK: No, not really. Some people have done shows there, but we haven’t talked about it. I think it’s just a COVID thing. I think Juliette knows about it.
JR: Yea it was our friend Lauren, whose project is called Eleanor Two. They did a recording thing there that was for Morris Home, which provides housing for trans folks in Philly. It wasn’t a show, just a recording.
PT: Ok, let’s say everything is over, whenever that will be. Where are you playing first?
IGK: That’s a good question. Anywhere that will have us, hah.
IGK: After quarantine we were supposed to play at Boot and Saddle with Palehound. So I would love to actually play that show.
EB: I love playing at Boot and Saddle, too. It’s a really great spot.
Hanging Garden is out now via Fire Talk records